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Post by j on Mar 13, 2018 19:29:32 GMT
I'm pretty good at mathematics, that's why I can see through this. It isn't nearly as clear cut as you say. If you can point out an actual problem with my math I would like to hear it, the figures come from your links. If instead you just want to avoid the subject, just say so rather than making a stupid snide remark. As far as space tourism goes, we've been promised it for years now, nothing yet. You need to base an argument on more than speculation.
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Post by Randall on Mar 13, 2018 19:46:42 GMT
Hmm yes, that's why you can see through it and nobody else can, were all dumbasses. Mate, I've been there done that and everytime the woo just took his ball home. Months arguing over scientific fact only for them to say I'm not commenting on this any more blar blar blar.
Ok space tourism, SpaceX is planning to send 2 private citizens past the Moon and further into space than anyone before them, before the end of the year. Then what?
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Post by j on Mar 13, 2018 20:17:18 GMT
You don't see through it because you're not trying to. You agree with the conclusions so why would you look a bit harder? An easy example, there are youtube videos of people travelling to either side of the equator with a bowl, filling it with water, and showing it flowing out and rotating in different directions depending on whether they were north or south. That's widely acknowledged to be an urban legend, whatever effect the coriolis force would have on such a small bowl is thoroughly dwarfed by brownian motion, the shape of the bowl... But that doesn't stop the tourist traps. Like: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwB9CjwvudAWhich is nonsense. It's all in how she moves her hand, how she imparts motion to the leaves, anyone with any scientific understanding could tell you that the effect is too minor to affect such a small bowl, and would basically be non-existent so close to the equator. It's transparent nonsense. And yet everyone there is fooled by it. Why? because they're not trying to look for the flaws, they agree the effect exists, they get told that causes it, they believe it. And this isn't a small thing, a few mistakes, it's a whole industry for them to keep that running. I justify what I say. I point out the flaws in the calculations, point out where error would arise. That is scientific fact. You are ignoring it and replying with only arrogance, dismissing not because what say is wrong but because the person that says it disagrees with you. Again, tell me when SpaceX has actually done it. Virgin Galactic promised it by 2009.
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Post by Randall on Mar 13, 2018 20:43:21 GMT
Why don't you go outside and try it for yourself? Don't knock it till you've tried it as they say.
Virgin Galactic only promised suborbital flights and had a catastrophic failure.
Tell you again when SpaceX has done it, sure I will but what about the 7 space tourists that have already flown, one twice? Did they really pay all that money and go less than 100 miles and not to the ISS?
Tell me why it is you think 100 miles or so is unachievable when say 50 miles is not, whats the difference?
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Post by j on Mar 13, 2018 21:06:00 GMT
Why would I try an experiment that is going to be inconclusive regardless of what you believe? As I explained, the error is simply too great. It's like trying to look for curvature by craning your head through a sunroof.
Every space tourism business that claimed to provide any form of space travel failed, SpaceX will be no different. Claimed tourists are just that; claimed. They just want the prestige. You act like they got nothing, but that's not just not true, the simple fact you've heard of them is enough. No more bizarre than buying jewel-encrusted toilet seats, it's not like they're low on funds.
The difference is observation, as I've said; you observe meteors streaking down in the vicinity of 80/90km, solid chunks of metal torn apart, that seems the clear point to mark out the boundary of where we can safely travel.
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Post by Randall on Mar 13, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
Its only inconclusive to you so keep telling yourself that.
So their liars then, these wealthy and successful people did it just for fame, a fame most people have never heard of. You ask 50 random people tomorrow to name a space tourist and not one will be able to.
Your last paragraph I have no clue what you're talking about.
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Post by j on Mar 13, 2018 21:38:44 GMT
It is inconclusive because I have demonstrated it. You are the one that wanted to avoid talking about the numbers.
Again, is it any weirder than jewel encrusted toilet seats? People with that much money have to spend it on something.
You asked what set the 90km altitude apart.
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Post by Randall on Mar 13, 2018 21:46:12 GMT
Mate it's only you from inside your bubble arguing the numbers.
So they spend it on a trip to the ISS and don't go there? Is that what you're saying because they sure don't get famous for it, so whats in it for them again?
Yes, and you ranted on about meteorites, whats that got to do with the ISS or any other spacecraft that's gone higher?
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Post by j on Mar 13, 2018 22:44:20 GMT
You are the one that relied on calculating the distance to the ISS via angles; when I showed the error was too substantial, you immediately began evading the topic.
They spend it on the prestige. Get a company to say that they went there, get a few faked photos. Again, jewel-encrusted toilet seats, if you've got money to burn you don't need much more than the cool factor to make you do something.
You asked why that was the figure I give, that's why. It's an indicator of when forces are too much.
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Post by Randall on Mar 15, 2018 18:34:42 GMT
The cool factor ay, how are they cool when nobody's heard of them? Whats to stop them blowing the whistle, they threaten them and their family's, that's a favorite of the woo. So some unknown guy spends 10's of millions of dollars to go into space but doesn't really go there and puts his family at risk at the same time. Ah, this is all starting to make sense now, not.
When forces are too much hmm ok for a meteorite as your example or for a purpose-built spacecraft? Spacecraft have procedures and hardware to deal with the forces so they don't get too much. They throttle back at max-Q, have heat shields, a blunt shape and re-enter at just the right angle for example.
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Post by j on Mar 16, 2018 15:38:26 GMT
That's a narrative you made up. If there was any actual issue you ought to be capable of actually responding to who you're talking to rather than needing to come up with a total fiction. Someone approaches a space agency because they want to go to space; that's on them. Why do they want it? the same reason they want a diamond encrusted toilet seat, it's a status symbol, all seven billion people in the world don't have to know their name for it to be one. They get pawned off with some cheap "Sorry, insurance reasons, we can't send private citizens up at the moment, but we totally do it for real." "Oh. But I really wanted to go up." "You can come to our training section, get a few photos with astronauts, how's that sound?" "Sure. here's a bit extra if you don't have to tell everyone it's fake." You aren't going to hear from the people that didn't go because they believed the excuse. They aren't in on the conspiracy, they're just willing to perpetuate it. It's the same as the ISS angle experiment from earlier, or the coriolis effect in bowls. It is objectively bullshit, but people believe it a priori.
That's only the case if you believe it is friction with the air that's responsible for the destruction of meteors, I suggest you think about how differently a flat Earth is set up to a round one.
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Post by Randall on Mar 16, 2018 21:05:34 GMT
So show your narrative isn't fiction Pmsl. Mate, you just made up something different than my piss take of you, that's all. There's no evidence for your's or mine, both are crackpot.
Insurance is available so what happens if in your scenario the person doesn't want to just say he's been for staus, what happens if they then blow the whistle. Your scenario has more holes than a cullender.
I want to go into space and my wife fully understands that if I win the euro millions I'm buying a ticket, for fame, fuck no I would hate to be famous, a status symbol, nope, not interested in all that shit, for me, I want to do it. If I won $80 million and pissed it all against the wall on a few days in space most people would think I'm a stupid boring selfish wanker and probably be right, not oh look at him he's so cool. Has it not dawned on you that people who want to go into space and are interested in that sort of thing are generally thought of as rather dull, not your status symbol pink Rolls Royce gold shithouse seat sort of people? Look at those who have, not your rock star look at me type are they? Admit it you didn't know who they were until you googled it, I didn't and I'm a fan of space travel. Not one Hollywood rock star type, not one. The sort of people you're talking about don't take risks, George Micheal had to ask his record company if he could grow a beard for fuck's sake.
Rich people have been and will be the first of the many, just like they were with airplane flights, this means nothing more than they have the cash required. As the price comes down more will go. Imagine as in the old days of space flight every time a plane made a trip it was scrapped, hardly anyone would be able to fly, now rockets are reusable the cost will keep dropping. I went to Poland and back for the weekend, cost me less than £50 return, how much was it 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ago? It's cheaper for me to fly to my mothers for a visit than it is to take the train, was that the case a while back, shit no.
A woo once said to me that even if he went to the Moon himself he wouldn't believe it, are you that sort of woo?
The Earths not flat so your suggestion is pointless.
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Post by j on Mar 17, 2018 0:39:16 GMT
It is still a status symbol. The kinds of people that want to go to space will know plenty of people to brag about it to, and the proportion of their wealth that they give up for it is basically insignificant. No one's saving up their last dollar. If someone wants to go for real and doesn't want a free tour, what whistle can they blow? They don't know it's fake, just that there's some company politicking going on. You need to lose this idea that someone can only perpetuate a conspiracy if they know that there is one.
You are so fixated on your preconceptions you refuse to truthfully analyze any alternatives.
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